April 1, 1970
T. has asked me questions regarding the death of her brother, N.J.1 It seems that a few months before his death, he knew he was going to die, and he said, “But I will come back in the Ashram.” And his sister used to see him. I told her, “When he died, I know I led him to the place of rest – he may have come out of it.” And when she told me about it, I concentrated a little, and one night, I saw; I saw him come back: he was in the body of a two- or three-year-old child. But I haven't seen him here – I don't know where he is.
There's a very curious Aphorism I saw yesterday. I don't know when he wrote that... I simply wrote at the bottom: “Nothing to say.”
I don't know, it's strange.... An aphorism in which he speaks of “enjoying Nature as one enjoys a woman's body”! (Mother laughs)
428 – What is the use of admiring Nature or worshipping her as a Power, a Presence and a goddess? What is the use, either, of appreciating her aesthetically or artistically? The secret is to enjoy her with the soul as one enjoys a woman with the body.
Have you seen my answer?
Yes: “Nothing to say.”
Nothing to say, yes.
There is another one in which he says, “I did not know whom I loved more. Kali or Krishna...” (I am commenting, not quoting exactly), “...till I realized that to love Kali was to love myself, while to love Krishna was to love myself and someone else too....”
427 – I did not know for some time whether I loved Krishna best or Kali; when I loved Kali, it was loving myself, but when I loved Krishna, I loved another, and still it was myself with whom I was in love. Therefore I came to love Krishna better even than Kali.
What exactly does he mean? I don't understand.... He writes as if he felt identified with Kali more than with Krishna. Yet (and he told me so) there was something of Krishna in him.
So I would have liked to know if all those things were written at the same time, or years apart?
Nolini seems to say it was at the beginning.
Yes, it was at the beginning.
At a time when he used to sign his letters “Kali” [around 1912].
Oh, there was a time when he used to sign “Kali”....
He always signed his letters “Kali”: the letters to Motilal,2 for instance.
Oh, I never saw that, I didn't know.
So it was at that time.
It was certainly long before I came [in 1914].
Did I tell you the vision I had here?... I've had many, but there is one... It was after the War was declared: between the time when the War (the first War) was declared and my departure. There was a rather long period: the War was declared in August  and I left next February. Well, between the two, one day while in meditation, I saw Kali enter through the door – Kali of the vital, naked, with a garland of heads – she danced into the room. And she told me (she stayed like that, a little distance away), she told me... I don't remember the exact words, but: “Paris is captured” or “Paris is about to be captured” or “Paris is destroyed” – something of the sort, anyway the Germans were advancing on Paris. And then, I saw the Mother – the Mother, that is to say... how does he call her? Maha...
Huge!... You see, Kali had a human size, but she was huge, up to the ceiling. She came in behind Kali and stood there, and she said, “NO” – simply, just like that (in a quiet categorical tone). So I (laughing)... In those days, there was no radio, we would get the news by wire; so we got the news that the Germans were advancing on Paris, and at the same moment (that is, the day I had my vision), at the corresponding moment, without reason they were struck with panic, they turned back and went away.... It was just the same moment.... They were advancing on Paris; so Kali came in, saying, “Paris is captured.” And then She came (Mother brings her hand down sovereignly): NO.... Like that. It really was remarkable, because I was simply sitting there, looking. And it happened in front of me.
I told Sri Aurobindo about it, he didn't say anything. It was he who would get the news. And later on, in the afternoon, he told me, “Here's the news....” It seems they were suddenly seized with panic; they thought, “It can't be” – there was no one to oppose them, the way was open, all clear, they didn't encounter anyone or anything, so they said to themselves, “It's a trap.” And... (laughing) they ran away. They turned around and left.... That was really interesting.
I never heard Sri Aurobindo tell me about those things [Kali and Krishna]. I know there was something of Krishna – he told me so and I saw it; it was what I saw, and he confirmed it, he told me. There was even a day when he felt Krishna IN him, and then... (he hadn't withdrawn yet at the time, he would see everyone: he saw people, that was when he would see Pavitra and the others),3 and then he called everyone,4 sat in the verandah of that house [above the Ashram's entrance], sat there, had me sit beside him, and called everyone. Then he said, “I have resolved to withdraw from activity; she will be your Mother and will...” He named me officially. Then he withdrew to his room. As for me, I worked in what is now “Prosperity”.... But at the time, he felt Krishna in him – that's why he withdrew.
Couldn't he have continued in activity with Krishna's presence?
I don't know.
I don't know.... I never asked him questions, to tell the truth; I would never ask anything: I listened to what he said.
That was the time when I remained without eating for ten days, just to see.
(Mother goes into a long contemplation)
I spend my nights – almost the whole night like that: I don't sleep, and... time goes by so fast!... Sometimes I have visions.
(Mother plunges back)
1 A young instructor of physical education who left his body a few years earlier.
2 Motilal Roy, a disciple from Chandernagore with whom Sri Aurobindo corresponded between 1912 and 1920.
3 That was the lime of the Evening Talks, between 1923 and 1926.
4 On November 24, 1926.